Puzzles and Google Image Search - Not a puzzle

A number of gamers may have noticed that Google Image Search is becoming extremely clever, so it now even recognises certain satellite and street view images. Well, it's all Google's after all.   This mostly happens with famous - and not so famous - landmarks and highly photographed locations.

It also works in strange ways, for example in JL's "Portcullis" puzzle, his original image was not searchable, however, nearly every reply was, even if it only showed the metal gate itself and not the whole picture!! And - as I found out - there's millions of Portcullises in the world. I'm using JL's puzzle as an example, as it's a good... er, example.

Seefit's satellite puzzle "No clues? None needed!" is also a good example of how some satellite images can be easily searched for. I think there is a way to fool Google's Image Search by rotating - so it's not pointing north - or tilting the image. I've tried a couple of times and it seems to work.

There are other examples, both from the original poster and the replies, but I'm not going through every one of them!

I don't think this can really be classed as 'cheating' because image searching is another tool, just like Geody, etc. However, there's no denying it really spoils the enjoyment and is not challenging at all. It could be said "then don't image search" but I don't think that's the answer. There is another problem which was pointed out to me - it's easy for the OP to check if their puzzle is searchable, but to expect all the repliers to do the same is not very reasonable. This of course would be labourious and not much fun at all!

Any thoughts? 

Great post, Groovy23. 

Personally, I'm not concerned about the methods anyone uses to solve a puzzle (unless it involves coming around to my house and beating the answer out of me). When you pointed out that the "No clues" puzzles were searchable, I added a note in the original posts to say that was the case. I think that just about everybody still opted to solve it the intended way but, even if they didn't, that didn't matter.

We are all in this forum for our own enjoyment but each of us enjoys it in our own way. That enjoyment could come from setting puzzles, from solving puzzles or even just from being part of this very friendly community.

One of the best things that has happened over time in the various incarnations of the forum is that we have stopped classifying someone in the puzzle subject as the "winner" by being the first to solve a puzzle. Now it is much more relaxed. F&Gers solve puzzles when they want to. Sometimes the solution has already been given when someone else adds an answer. That's fine by me, too. That person has gained enjoyment from the puzzle by solving it, almost certainly by not checking the solution given by the original poster.

As another context, if someone has a book of Sudoku puzzles and is completely stuck on a particular puzzle and if that person looks up the answer in the back of the book to find one of the missing numbers so that he/she can continue the puzzle, that "cheating" is contributing to the personal enjoyment of the puzzle. I think it's the same with the image search here. To quote farceur's forum signature, "F&G means Fun and Games not Frustration and Grief."

 

Apr 28, 2015 2:52:56 GMT seefit said:

Great post, Groovy23. 

Personally, I'm not concerned about the methods anyone uses to solve a puzzle (unless it involves coming around to my house and beating the answer out of me).  

Lol! I couldn't help but laugh at that!! 

Excellent points, Seefit. I've been missing a while and I wasn't even aware about the "winner" line! 

As you infer, it's not the be-all and end-all of a puzzle and people can solve it in any way they enjoy. I couldn't agree more - I've often checked the back of crossword puzzles for crucial words - and the last thing any of us want, is to take the 'fun' out of F&G. I'm sure we'll adapt as things develop and even more devious puzzles are set... this spells big trouble for me.   

Great points from both Groovy and Seefit.

Totally agree that F&G challenges are solved - or not - by individuals in whatever manner they choose. I'm a butterfly player, I pick a challenge and have a good go at it, if nothing materialises after lengthy searches I pass on to another. I return to those challenges after a much needed clue is given. How I solve challenges is up to me and I wouldn't question anyone on how they get to an answer that eludes me.

Everyone who solves a puzzle is a winner and I think there is nothing more gratifying to the setter of challenges to see a whole list of replies, it's why we do it.

Carry on having fun x

Hi guys,

Indeed, Google Image search is a feature that changed F&G challenges forever. (But that was also the case with Virtual Globetrotting, Google Earth hacks, ...)

It's not such a problem for the screenshots (GE or SV). We've seen very clever challenges focussing on meaningless details, where the main landmark was somewhere in the background. (The tiny pixels).

Sometimes it remains fun to work with a non-recognisable image (enhancing colours, extracting parts, ..) until it works in GI search.
I remember a challenge of a statue before an Italian library, that I was able to solve just by extracting one of the windows of the building.
That was fun and didn't feel like cheating!

The main problem IMHO is the use of other internet pictures in clues.
I remember many portraits of famous people where I spend hours searching, based on style of clothing, etc ..
Now we have GI and it says immediately: Oh, that's Alfred Nobel.
The same thing with rebuses: as a non-english player, it was sometimes difficult to find out the right words. (E.g. thinking about "frog" where it was "toad").
What are the best techniques to avoid this?

About checking the answers: I regularly do. It doesn't take to much time after the upload of an answer and copying the URL, to paste it quickly in GI before pasting it in the answer.

Walter

I think that Image Reverse search is a feature and should be generally used. However, there are some specific puzzles, like the No Clues series, that are ment to be solved in a different and fun way, and you shouldn't be using GI reverse. I think the creator of the post should just specify when to NOT use Image Reverse search, exactly how it was done with the No Clues series. If this is not specified, then you can use it. Just my thoughts and sorry for my bad english 

All good points from everybody... yes, I remember those days of "famous person" puzzles when we had no idea who it was and no way of knowing but trying names... 

Now Google solves your F&G puzzle for you!     Or maybe the smiley should be: 


Within a couple of years, as soon as you post a puzzle image, the coords and address will appear on your screen/watch/glasses immediately while you'll have nothing to do!  Could this be the beginning of the end for F&G ? 


I guess like always when humans were confronting adversity, we'll have to use our imagination and find new ways to design puzzles. Maybe ask the players to post only a detail of the solution as proof. A tree 3 meters away, a cloud, a vehicle around the corner... Or maybe blur the whole solution image! Would that work? 


Let's all create a "think tank" and brainstorm our way through this towards possible solutions! 

Apr 28, 2015 10:29:24 GMT johnluke said:

All good points from everybody... yes, I remember those days of "famous peron" puzzles when we had no idea who it was and no way of knowing but trying names... 

Now Google solves your F&G puzzle for you!     Or maybe the smiley should be: 


Within a couple of years, as soon as you post a puzzle image, the coords and address will appear on your screen/watch/glasses immediately while you'll have nothing to do!  Could this be the beginning of the end for F&G ? 


I guess like always when humans were confronting adversity, we'll have to use our imagination and find new ways to design puzzles. Maybe ask the players to post only a detail of the solution as proof. A tree 3 meters away, a cloud, a vehicle around the corner... Or maybe blur the whole solution image! Would that work? 


Let's all create a "think tank" and brainstorm our way through this towards possible solutions! 

I don't think it will ever be possible that a computer can recognize a random picture with a random angle and a random zoom from a random place on the planet and tell you where it is. Reverse Search just finds pictures that already exist, so whatever is in that picture must be of some interest. I don't think we are any close to the end of F&G. 

Apr 28, 2015 10:38:45 GMT ndrqu said:

I don't think it will ever be possible that a computer can [...]

Those words should be handled with care.  Who knows what computers can do in the future? 30 years ago, if you'd told me my phose would recognize a song on the radio, or scan a word on a poster or a sign and translate it (see the app called "word lens") or even record a video... that would've been called science fiction! Even science fiction films of the time didn't think of all that. It would not have been believable... Even GE would have been thought to be impossible. Think about me when what I said might become reality actually does. You will think "Ah, I remember when JohnLuke" said so on F&G!  

Apr 28, 2015 10:55:19 GMT johnluke said:

Apr 28, 2015 10:38:45 GMT ndrqu said:

I don't think it will ever be possible that a computer can [...]

Those words should be handled with care.  Who knows what computers can do in the future? 30 years ago, if you'd told me my phose would recognize a song on the radio, or scan a word on a poster or a sign and translate it (see the app called "word lens") or even record a video... that would've been called science fiction! Even science fiction films of the time didn't think of all that. It would not have been believable... Even GE would have been thought to be impossible. Think about me when what I said might become reality actually does. You will think "Ah, I remember when JohnLuke" said so on F&G!  

You are right, but I still think there are some limits of what the technology can do. If you tell me about flying cars, that WILL happen, or AI, that WILL happen. But recognizing every place in the world from a random picture is just beyond every possibility, also because the world changes, so a static picture will not do the job forever. And even if in some way this will be possible, I really don't think it will happen before a century, so maybe my grandchildren will have some problems here with Google Puzzles... but they will probably have other different types of amusement by then... 

i think we are at the very beginning of "Google Image Search", "Reverse Image Search", "GI identification" ...whatever the name!

it will be more powerful than what we can even imagine, (i've) no doubt about it!

so, we at F&G cannot avoid it (i don't want to, yep!)